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热度 38已有 1095 次阅读2012-12-24 11:24 |个人分类:网络磨牙| 林肯, 名言

今天读了一篇胖卡转发的大作里面有一句突然想起美国林肯总统有句名言:"有什么样的人民,就产生什么样的政府。"

感觉自己十分的才疏学浅,这么有名的一句话,俺这看完了近十种林肯传记的人竟然没听说过。于是连忙放狗搜索。果不其然,连英文都出来了。What the people having what to the government having right away。但妖道读惯了林肯大爷的流畅的英文,觉得这句话实在是让俺读的万分的不舒服。于是,继续放狗,搜这句英文。

然后狗狗不负众望,把最广泛的出处给找出来了。

http://blog.tianya.cn/blogger/post_read.asp?BlogID=12360&PostID=27136154

源出天涯博客,所谓羽戈   在  2010-10-14 08:58 星期四 晴 所发表的大作。其中提到的部分收录如下:

若我所记不差,这应是美国第16任总统亚伯拉罕·林肯的名言。其原文为:What the people having what to the government having right away。林肯的原意在于盛赞美国人民,慧昌先生转译过来,则为了抨击中国人民缺乏法治意识。

这位慧昌先生的大作,

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_6d0488710100lb4k.html

由此,笔者想到一句很经典的话:“有什么样的人民,就有什么样的政府。”

很好了。这句兴盛于21世纪的林肯名言,从最早的出处,到英文都有了。

妖道才疏学浅,实在找不到这句英文的出自林肯老兄的哪篇讲话了,于是,我求助于wikiquote. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln里面收录了林肯从1832年,就是他开始开杂货店那年,头一次公众讲话,一直到他老人家去世时为止的所有名言警句。

很遗憾哈,没有发现。

林肯大爷最接近这句话的一句名言,大概是他在1863年在Gettysburg国家公墓的讲话。全文如下:
  • Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow, this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us — that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion — that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain — that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

妖道恶意的推测一把,除了像我这种林肯迷以外,大多数的国人知道林肯对于政府的论断,恐怕还是只知道断章取义的最后几个字,因为是英文课本上讲的。要说国内有人比我更了解林肯的讲话风格和内容,我想不是不可能,但肯定屈指可数,还是一只手的。里面排除掉了已经退休了的老先生之外,那就没有别人了。


林肯真正对于政府和所谓人民的论述,应该是这一句:

the just powers of governments are derived from the consent of the governed.

这句话的背景是反对蓄奴。是为了呼应上面的一句 What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent。


林肯大爷对于咱们伟大的天朝的看法,下面一段应该是很切题。

It is vain and foolish to arraign this man or that for the part he has taken, or has not taken, and to hold the government responsible for his acts. In no administration can there be perfect equality of action and uniform satisfaction rendered by all. But this government must be preserved in spite of the acts of any man or set of men. It is worthy your every effort. Nowhere in the world is presented a government of so much liberty and equality. To the humblest and poorest amongst us are held out the highest privileges and positions.



林肯大爷对于这句被创造出来的名言的看法,大概如下:


Foolish many said; foolish many, many believed.(这句话是不折不扣的,完完全全的断章取义。


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发表评论 评论 (16 个评论)

回复 猫元帅 2012-12-24 11:50
中国知识分子有个毛病,就是喜欢随意剪切拼接创造材料。
回复 coo 2012-12-24 12:01
猫元帅: 中国知识分子有个毛病,就是喜欢随意剪切拼接创造材料。
文科知识分子
回复 飞翔的芦苇 2012-12-24 12:01
很牛的考据
回复 猫元帅 2012-12-24 12:15
coo: 文科知识分子
知识分子当然都是文科啊,几千年来都是。
回复 coo 2012-12-24 12:20
猫元帅: 知识分子当然都是文科啊,几千年来都是。
这就是为啥中国的历史哲学书籍都没有什么阅读价值。除去拉动出版业和造纸业的发展以外。
回复 Webb 2012-12-24 12:31
coo: 这就是为啥中国的历史哲学书籍都没有什么阅读价值。除去拉动出版业和造纸业的发展以外。
49年之后的中国
回复 coo 2012-12-24 13:12
Webb: 49年之后的中国
所以中国人文思想的复兴要等深受共产主义洗脑的几代人死光光
回复 马鹿 2012-12-24 16:24
标红的那句英语我也看着不舒服, 不是英语原文的感觉
回复 森林鹿 2012-12-24 21:06
做这种考据真心累。。。俺考据过汤因比说“我愿生在中国宋朝”,考据过“李绅一顿饭杀三百只鸡”,围观过“胡适说历史就是个任人打扮的小姑娘”的考据,结果这些都是现代历史发明家的成果。
回复 森林鹿 2012-12-24 21:07
coo: 这就是为啥中国的历史哲学书籍都没有什么阅读价值。除去拉动出版业和造纸业的发展以外。
这话说过头了。
回复 水风 2012-12-25 01:48
森林鹿: 做这种考据真心累。。。俺考据过汤因比说“我愿生在中国宋朝”,考据过“李绅一顿饭杀三百只鸡”,围观过“胡适说历史就是个任人打扮的小姑娘”的考据,结果这些 ...
证明是只需要我一分钟,证明否,花了我6个钟头。

说实话,我也不愿意去这么心累的去证明这是他们捏造的。但既然花了5个钟头证明了我的记忆力不是问题了,也不在乎再多一个钟头跟大家分享一下。
回复 洗心 2012-12-25 08:17
老实说,下面这句话我读不懂, 麻烦楼主分析翻译一下, 这是语法正确的英文吗?
What the people having what to the government having right away
回复 锦候 2012-12-25 08:24
What the people having what to the government having right away
这句英文是真心看不懂。
回复 水风 2012-12-25 09:48
洗心: 老实说,下面这句话我读不懂, 麻烦楼主分析翻译一下, 这是语法正确的英文吗?
What the people having what to the government having right away ...
我就是因为读不懂,所以才质疑原文的正确性。因为林肯的英文一向是作为典范出现的。至于那句话,就不必费心了。
回复 楚天 2012-12-25 23:14
我联想到的是这一句:In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.

其实天朝民众最大的问题是该认真的时候不认真。
回复 洗心 2013-1-1 20:58
这话我找到出处了, 来自法国保守主义哲学家
http://www.aswetalk.org/bbs/blog-1197-20593.html

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