中美教育差别始于高中

万里风中虎

万里风中虎

万里风中虎 发表于 2014-5-27 13:54
Long-Term Effects Of The 1959-1961 China Famine: Mainland China and Hong Kong
Douglas Almond, Lena ...

The Great Chinese Famine Leads to Shorter and Overweight Females in Chongqing Chinese Population After 50 Years

Yonghong Wang1,*, Xiaolin Wang1, Yuhan Kong2, John H. Zhang3 andQing Zeng4
Article first published online: 6 SEP 2012

DOI: 10.1038/oby.2009.296

2010 North American Association for the Study of Obesity (NAASO)

Issue Obesity
Obesity
Volume 18, Issue 3, pages 588–592, March 2010
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Abstract
This study investigated a possible association between early nutritional status during the famine, and the risk of overweight and obesity in adulthood in Chongqing Chinese population. The body weight, height, and BMI data were obtained from records of population (17,023) that had annual physical evaluations in the Public Health Center (in our hospital). Subjects born during 1956–1964 were divided into three groups: toddler group, all subjects who were born 1–3 years before the famine (1956–1958); gestational group, who were born during the famine period (1959–1961), and control group, who were born after the famine (1962–1964). The body weight and BMI were significantly higher, but the body height was significantly lower in the toddler and gestational groups (P < 0.05) in the female population as compared to the control group. The odds ratio of being overweight in females is more pronounced in the toddler group (1.48 times, 95% confidence interval (CI): 1.288–1.689) than in the gestational group (1.26 times, 95% CI: 1.089–1.457). The odds ratio of being obese in females is significantly higher in the toddler group (1.46 times, 95% CI: 1.288–1.689) than the control group. For males, the famine had no impact at all on the adulthood body weight in males. The Great Chinese Famine that affected the Chongqing population during 1959–1961 leads to shorter and overweight females, and the former is a risk factor for increased BMI in Chongqing. Second, the famine seems to be producing shorter but slimmer males in Chongqing. Furthermore, toddler's and maternal's malnutrition during the famine had important late consequences on the health status.



Introduction
There are definite evidences that show the risk factors of many diseases of adulthood are associated with major natural and social events during childhood, especially for the metabolic syndrome, stroke, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, obesity, and cardiovascular disease (1). Therefore, a “critical period” hypothesis suggested that the environmental conditions experienced in utero and prenatal periods are important, and may have a lifelong effect on later body constitution and the tendency to become obese (2). The term fetal programming of adult disease describes the long-term effect of maternal nutritional status on the birth body size and proportion. For example, it was suggested that under adverse nutritional conditions, fetuses maintain head size at the expense of body size (“head sparing”). This has specific implications for the stratification of risk factors for the adulthood diseases (3).

The Great Chinese Famine occurred in 1959–1961 that resulted in the death and the malnutrition of millions of people. Chongqing is a region that was severely affected by the famine. This natural disaster, however, provided an opportunity to study the effect of malnutrition on the long-term body development after 50 years. Therefore, in this study, we analyzed a possible association of the famine and the pregnancies during that time on the adulthood body weight, height, and BMI in the Chongqing Chinese population.


Methods and Procedures
Data source
The data were collected from subjects for annual physical evaluations from 2006 to 2008 in the Public Health Center of the First Affiliated Hospital of Chongqing Medical University in Chongqing, China. The data were randomized by multistep cluster sampling methods. The variables on subjects selected for this study included age, gender, and health indexes, including body height and body weight.

All subjects were Chongqing residents (n = 17,023) who were born in the years from 1956 to 1964. The subjects were divided into three groups by the birth years: 1–3 years before the famine (1956–1958), three years during the famine (1959–1961), and 1–3 years after the famine (1962–1964), and categorized as toddler, gestational, and control groups, respectively (Table 1). In our preliminary analysis, there was a significant difference between genders, and therefore, the data were grouped by gender.

Table 1.  Gender and birth-year distribution
inline image
Overweight and obesity standards
Overweight and obesity are usually defined by an indirect measure of body fat and the BMI (weight (kg)/height (m2)). The World Health Organization defines overweight with a BMI of 25.0–29.9 and obesity with a BMI ≥30. In the obesity research, the standard formulation has differences because of various nationalities' characteristics. We adopted the definition of overweight and obesity recommended by the Chinese guideline for prevention and control of overweight and obesity in Chinese adults', where underweight is defined as BMI <18.5, normal as BMI 18.5–23.9, overweight as BMI 24–27.9, and obesity BMI ≥28 (ref. 4).

Statistical analysis
The analysis of variance was used to determine the difference in body weight, body height, and BMI values among the groups. Then prevalence of overweight and obesity in the three groups was calculated. The χ2 test method was used to calculate differences in overweight and obesity prevalence among the three groups. A logistical model was developed to determine the odds ratio of the impact of the year of birth in adults overweight and obesity. The SAS 9.1 statistical program (SAS Institute, Cary, NC) was used to analyze the data.


Results
The effects of the famine on body height
In female subjects, the famine during the toddler and gestational stages had significantly reduced the adulthood body height (P < 0.05 vs. control) (Figure 1a). During the toddler stage, the famine reduced the adulthood body heights in male subjects (P < 0.05 vs. control) (Figure 1b). During the gestational stage, the famine had no impact on the adulthood male body height.

image
Figure 1. Comparison of body height in (a) female subjects and (b) male subjects (M ± s.d.). *P < 0.05 vs. control group born in 1962–1964.

The effects of the famine on body weight
A significant increase in the body weight of the toddler and gestational stages was observed in female subjects during the famine (P < 0.05 vs. control) (Figure 2a). During the toddler stage, the famine somehow reduced the adulthood body weights of the male subjects (P < 0.05 vs. control) (Figure 2b). Again, the famine, during the gestational stage, had no impact on the adulthood male body weight.

image
Figure 2. Comparison of body weight in (a) female subjects and (b) male subjects (M ± s.d.). *P < 0.05 vs. control group born in 1962–1964.

The effects of the famine on adult BMI
The famine had significantly increased the BMI of the female subjects during the toddler and gestational stages (P < 0.05 vs. control) (Figure 3a). Even though a tendency of a low BMI by the famine was observed in the male subjects of the toddler group, no statistical significance was obtained (Figure 3b).

image
Figure 3. Comparison of BMI in (a) female subjects and (b) male subjects (M ± s.d.). *P < 0.05 vs. control group born in 1962–1964.

Chinese criteria for overweight and obesity
Reassessing the BMI using the criteria of overweight and obesity for Chinese, there was a significantly higher prevalence in overweight in females in the toddler group (1956–1958) and in the gestational group (1959–1961) (P < 0.05 vs. control group) but not in males (Table 2). In addition, there was higher prevalence of obesity of the toddler group in females (P < 0.05) (Table 3). Compared with females born in the control group (1962–1964), the odds ratio for overweight of the toddler (1956–1958) and of the gestational groups (1959–1961) was increased by 47.5% (95% confidence interval (CI) 1.288–1.689) and 26% (95% CI 1.089–1.457) respectively. The odds ratio of obesity was increased in the toddler group (1956–1958) by 46.1% (95% CI 1.083–1.970).

Table 2.  Comparison of overweight prevalence
inline image
Table 3.  Comparison of obesity prevalence
inline image

Discussion
The 1959–1961 Great Chinese Famine was a 3-year period of extreme food shortage, especially in Chongqing region. This disastrous famine, in humanitarian terms, however, offers a unique opportunity to study the long-term effects of a period of severe maternal malnutrition during toddler and gestational stages on the adulthood body weight and height at a half century later. In the present study, we have observed the following results. First, toddler's nutritional status is crucial for adulthood body height in both females and males. The effect of the famine on body height is more pronounced in the toddler stage than in the gestational stage in both genders. The female subjects, during the toddler or gestational famine periods, are shorter than the control subjects. The male subjects, during the toddler famine, are shorter than the gestational famine and control subjects. The famine in Chongqing in 1959–1961 somehow selectively affected the female fetus on adulthood body height but spared the male fetus. Second, the toddler's nutritional status is crucial for adulthood body weight, but the effect is gender dependent. The famine in Chongqing increased female body weight (overweight/obese) in adulthood in both toddler and gestational famine subjects when compared to control subjects. In toddler's period, the famine somehow decreased male body weight in adulthood but failed to affect the adulthood body weight in the gestational famine subjects. Third, the BMI in female subjects is consistent with the body height and weight values, and showed an increase in adulthood BMI of toddler and gestational famine subjects. No statistical significance was obtained for adult male BMI among groups due to the reverse trend in male adulthood: body height and weight of the toddler and gestational groups. These observations are partially consistent with reports from other countries (5).

There are two important features observed in this study. First, the malnutrition, during the toddler stage but not the gestational stage, is more important for the adulthood body height and weight especially in females. Severe malnutrition during toddler and gestational stages leads to shorter but overweight females in Chongqing region in China 50 years later. This short and round body figure is more pronounced in the toddlers who were born at 1–3 years before the famine (Figures 1a and 2a). The adulthood body weight and height values from the famine fetus females are lower than that of the toddler and control groups. This observation indicates that for females of the toddler stage, malnutrition is an extremely important risk factor for adulthood body height and weight, especially in determining overweight and obesity. The gestational nutrition is also important but to a lesser degree when compared to toddler stage nutrition. Second, the famine on male development produced surprising results on male development. The first and the most important observation from this study is that the famine, during gestational stage, failed to make any impact at all on the adulthood body weight and height. It seems that malnutrition during gestational stage failed to affect male development in Chongqing region. Another interesting observation is that the famine during the toddler stage affected male body development but in a reverse trend as compared to that of females. Malnutrition in the toddler stage reduced adulthood body height and weight in males. It seems that the famine produced shorter but slimmer males in Chongqing region after 50 years.

The prevalence of obesity and overweight has increased dramatically in the 20th century in both economically developed countries and developing countries. It is estimated that >1 billion adults worldwide are overweight (i.e., BMI of 25.0–29.9 kg/m2) and >300 million adults worldwide are obese (BMI ≥30.0 kg/m2) (refs. 6,7). Contemporary prevalence of adult obesity is very high in United States (33% in both genders), in oil-rich Arabian countries (30% in males, 40% in females), and in European Union (up to 25% in both genders). In China, adult male overweight status tripled and female overweight status doubled between 1989 and 2000. By 2004, nearly a quarter of all adults in China were overweight (8). Obesity is associated with increased risks of comorbidities such as type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, and osteoarthritis (9). The economic cost of four chronic diseases (hypertension, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and stroke) attributable to overweight and obesity was estimated to take account of 3.2 and 3.7% of 2003 National Health Care Expenditure and National Health Service Expenditure in China, respectively (10).

Adulthood overweight is affected by the childhood nutrition. Maternal dietary manipulation in animal models produces small offspring that display shortened life span, obesity, hypertension, diabetes (11,12), and alterations in the hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis (13). These observations suggest that the origin of disease in later life lies in impaired development in utero. The fetus' developing tissues may be permanently altered by a suboptimal availability of nutrients, possibly providing a survival advantage in the short term. These adaptations can have profound effects on health in later life, even when the dietary insult was of short duration and had no effect on birth weight (14). Although there is strong evidence from animal models that maternal nutritional status during pregnancy can induce permanent changes in the fetus, it is not clear how this might apply to human populations.

This study, using a unique population at about 50 years after the Great Chinese Famine in Chongqing region, reconfirmed studies of Dutch Famine: severe malnutrition affects adulthood body height and weight. Maternal malnutrition was associated with higher BMI and waist circumference in 50-year-old women during gestation. But BMI of males was not significantly affected by exposure to famine during any stage of pregnancy (15). Lumey (16) studied intergenerational effects of exposure to the famine and found that during the Dutch Famine, women who had experienced famine for the first 6 months in utero had slightly smaller babies than women who had not been exposed to famine in utero. In addition, this study demonstrated several features in the Chongqing Chinese population, especially the gender difference at 50 years after the famine. The Great Chinese Famine seems to be leading to shorter and rounder females but shorter and slimmer males in Chongqing regions. The nutrition at the toddler stage is extremely important for both males and females, but again, there are gender differences. Females obtained a shorter and rounder body (overweight or obese) but males obtained a shorter but slimmer body at 50 years later.

There are several issues that need to be considered in interpreting our findings, such as socioeconomic status, gender preference, health care, infant survival, and maternal constitution or fertility. Even though we studied a relatively large population and divided the analysis by gender, these issues are beyond the scope of this study and require additional investigations. Another potential weakness of this study is the use of normal population, selective subjects that were fit and had normal employment who came to this center for routine health checkup, which may lead to underestimation of the effect of famine on overweight and obesity. The subjects who were affected severely by the overweight and obesity may not hold their jobs and therefore were “excluded” from this investigation. Furthermore, the selection of working force introduces a potential bias because about 15% of females in Chongqing region are homemakers and they were “excluded” from this study. Finally, because this study targets 50-year-old population, the Chinese retirement age introduces another issue. In China, male retires after 60 years, whereas female retires after 50 years. Therefore, it is likely more females were retired and they were “excluded” from this study.

Nevertheless, malnutrition in the early life is an important issue to be addressed because of their implications of the origin of adult diseases. The Barker hypothesis, also referred to the “fetal origin” hypothesis, proposes that the alterations in fetal nutrition and endocrine status result in developmental adaptations that permanently change the body's structure, physiology and metabolism, thereby predisposing individuals to cardiovascular, metabolic, and endocrine disease in adult life (17,18,19). Childhood malnutrition is also relevant for infantile health, growth and development. The most cost-effective strategy to prevent adulthood hypertension, stroke, diabetes, and other metabolic disorders that may be originated in the early life is to improve women's nutrition before and during pregnancy, and childhood's nutrition. This study demonstrated that the toddler stage nutrition is extremely important, for females and males.

Acknowledgments
In this study, we thank all participants: the data collection team of the First Affiliated Hospital, Chongqing Medical University, Chongqing, China. Q.Z. had full access to all the data, and takes responsibility for the integrity of the data and the accuracy of the data analysis in the study.

Disclosure
The authors declared no conflict of interest.


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万里风中虎

万里风中虎 发表于 2014-5-27 13:52
Journal of Development Economics
Volume 97, Issue 1, January 2012, Pages 99–111

Long-Term Effects Of The 1959-1961 China Famine: Mainland China and Hong Kong
Douglas Almond, Lena Edlund, Hongbin Li, Junsen Zhang
NBER Working Paper No. 13384
Issued in September 2007
NBER Program(s):   AG   CH   HE
This paper estimates the effects of maternal malnutrition exploiting the 1959-1961 Chinese famine as a natural experiment. In the 1% sample of the 2000 Chinese Census, we find that fetal exposure to acute maternal malnutrition had compromised a range of socioeconomic outcomes, including: literacy, labor market status, wealth and marriage market outcomes. Women married spouses with less education and later, as did men, if at all. In addition, maternal malnutrition reduced the sex ratio (males to females) in two generations -- those prenatally exposed and their children -- presumably through heightened male mortality. This tendency toward female offspring is interpretable in light of the Trivers-Willard (1973) hypothesis, according to which parents in poor condition should skew the offspring sex ratio toward daughters. Hong Kong natality micro data from 1984-2004 further confirm this pattern of female offspring among mainland-born residents exposed to malnutrition in utero.

万里风中虎

万里风中虎 发表于 2014-5-27 13:42
Journal of Health Economics
Volume 26, Issue 4, 1 July 2007, Pages 659–681

Journal of Development Economics
Volume 97, Issue 1, January 2012, Pages 99–111

Cover image
Stunting and selection effects of famine: A case study of the Great Chinese Famine
Tue Gørgensa, Corresponding author contact information, E-mail the corresponding author, Xin Mengb, E-mail the corresponding author, Rhema Vaithianathanc, E-mail the corresponding author
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http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jdeveco.2010.12.005
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Abstract
Many developing countries experience famine. If survival is related to height, the increasingly common practice of using height as a measure of well-being may be misleading. We devise a novel method for disentangling the stunting from the selection effects of famine. Using data from the 1959–1961 Great Chinese Famine, we find that taller children were more likely to survive the famine. Controlling for selection, we estimate that children under the age of five who survived the famine grew up to be 1 to 2 cm shorter. Our results suggest that if a country experiences a shock such as famine, average height is potentially a biased measure of economic conditions during childhood.

JEL classification
C33; I12; N950; O15
Keywords
Famine; Height; China; Panel data
Corresponding author contact information
Corresponding author.
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

万里风中虎

大脚丫 发表于 2014-5-27 10:17
获得性不能遗传，80后身体素质下降是因为吃的太好动得太少。社会动荡只会淘汰弱者，幸存者都是强者，80后 ...

Journal of Health Economics
Volume 26, Issue 4, 1 July 2007, Pages 659–681

Cover image
The long-term health and economic consequences of the 1959–1961 famine in China
Yuyu Chen, Li-An ZhouCorresponding author contact information, E-mail the corresponding author
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http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jhealeco.2006.12.006
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Abstract
This paper, using a difference-in-differences method, tries to quantify the long-term effects of China's 1959–1961 famine on the health and economic status of the survivors. We find that the great famine caused serious health and economic consequences for the survivors, especially for those in early childhood during the famine. Our estimates show that on average, in the absence of the famine, individuals of the 1959 birth cohort would have otherwise grown 3.03 cm taller in adulthood. The famine also greatly impacted the labor supply and earnings of the survivors with famine exposure during their early childhood.

JEL classification
I12; J13
Keywords
Famine; Health; Difference-in-differences estimator; China
Corresponding author contact information
Corresponding author. Tel.: +86 10 62750431; fax: +86 10 62751463.
Copyright © 2007 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.

大脚丫

万里风中虎 发表于 2014-5-27 08:05
呵呵，其实上体育课死掉的人80后是凤毛麟角，身体不好的人什么年代都有，更何况80后的父母很多本来就是大 ...

获得性不能遗传，80后身体素质下降是因为吃的太好动得太少。社会动荡只会淘汰弱者，幸存者都是强者，80后的父母身体不差的。

万里风中虎

大脚丫 发表于 2014-5-25 23:27
我还以为是小虎自己的孩子上学了，受了一些什么刺激,最近转贴的东西都有点负能量的感觉。

社会变迁都是 ...

呵呵，其实上体育课死掉的人80后是凤毛麟角，身体不好的人什么年代都有，更何况80后的父母很多本来就是大饥荒的幸存者，心理生理都受到极大摧残。他们的身体本来就不好，有大量文献显示他们的平均身高都比前后两代人低得多。所以他们的孩子身体不好，很正常。这个是国家对他们犯的罪，不是他们的错。

真正体育课上死得多的时候是教育大跃进时期，饿死了就说是”二号病“，其实就是缺粮食，最后连体育课都取消了。叫做劳逸结合，躺着等死。所以，80后是中国第一次不怕挨饿的一代，才会有所谓的体育锻炼。

奉孝

水风 发表于 2014-5-26 04:39
这其实就是一个很简单的人口基数问题。现在美国理工科方面还是美国人占优势，一方面是因为20年前，理工科 ...

炮灰跟天才的比例不是完全正相关的。炮灰多，当然产生的天才可能会多一些，但不一定是线性关系。何况，国内现在打算做炮灰的人也越来越少，金融行业的吸引力远远大于其他理工科。

冰蚁

假如十八 发表于 2014-5-26 00:40
文革之前的大学是不分科的通才教育么，这个好像跟历史不吻合吧，建国后不久不就高校和系科调整了。文理和 ...

大学分科啊。所以我上面说区别于大学的专才教育啊。


PS, 不好意思，前面那个回复打漏两个字，引起误解了。

假如十八

冰蚁 发表于 2014-5-26 13:34
说得是高中，不分文理，也有工农实践课，直接掌握社会生存技能等。区别于大学里是专才以及现在文理分科后 ...

文革之前的大学是不分科的通才教育么，这个好像跟历史不吻合吧，建国后不久不就高校和系科调整了。文理和工科严格分开啊。


1952年6月至9月，中央人民政府大规模调整了全国高等学校的院系设置，把民国时代的现代高等院校系统改造成“苏联模式”高等教育体系。经过全盘调整后，全国许多高等学校被分拆，大力发展独立建制的工科院校，相继新设钢铁、地质、航空、矿业、水利等专门学院和专业，工科、农林、师范、医药院校的数量从此前的108所大幅度增加到149所，而高校数量由1952年之前的211所下降到1953年后的183所，综合性院校则明显减少，高校丧失教学自主权，社会学、政治学等人文社科类专业被停止和取消，私立教育退出历史舞台。

冰蚁

假如十八 发表于 2014-5-26 00:14
文革前是通才教育。。。这个不知道是什么意思

说得是高中，不分文理，也有工农实践课，直接掌握社会生存技能等。区别于大学里是专才以及现在高中文理分科后导致的其中一科的偏废。

假如十八

冰蚁 发表于 2014-5-26 11:17
精英，平民啥的真的都是扯淡。研究一个东西得先把各部分独立开来（分），然后再一个一个加回去（合）。谈 ...

文革前是通才教育。。。这个不知道是什么意思

冰蚁

成奎花 发表于 2014-5-25 01:28
美国制度也有它的优越性，这个精英平民的就不多说了，真要说那就要打翻天了，而且两边都不会讨好，哈哈 ...

精英，平民啥的真的都是扯淡。研究一个东西得先把各部分独立开来（分），然后再一个一个加回去（合）。谈美国的教育，就先把美国社会，文化，教育系统等等的先分开来。那么独立地看美国的教育体系，其采取的方式方法，思路理念，对比中国现在的教育系统，其符合教育规律是非常明显的，对人的培养也是更全面深入的。比如中国一天到晚讲“科学”。试问有几个小孩从小学就开始接触科学研究报告，知道怎么去开始设计实验，采集数据，分析数据，写科学报告？美国是从小学就开始接触这些东西的，还是一般公立小学。当美国需要工程师，这个系统能给你培养出大量高素质工程师出来。当需求转向到如金融/律师/医生这些，这个系统也能够给你培养出顶尖的人才。和很多人认为的相反，美国的教育系统恰恰是为了平衡阶层固化的问题的。这个系统给寒门学生还是保持了一个还算通畅的上升道路的，当然前提是这个学生愿意去努力学习，展示自己能力。还有就是前段时间被诟病的 No Child Left Behind Act，把资源向差生倾斜。所以说美国教育就是给精英开的，那就扯淡了。但是实际生活中，因为家庭/社会因素影响，收入好的家庭的小孩多能表现出更好的学习意愿，比如更多的阅读写作，更好地完成作业project等等。差距就慢慢变得越来越大，等到以后工作，收入也会不错，于是就显得阶层在固化。想要有所改变，那是要改造整个社会的价值观，学校只能减缓这个趋势但无力解决这个问题。

为什么说中国的所谓“平民"教育也是扯淡呢。这得看现在这个状况是怎么来的。新中国教育分两段。建国后到文革前和改开后。其实建国后，中国教育还是稳步发展的，算是符合规律的。那时候国家也需要人才，但没有出现高考指挥棒，高中也不分文理，通才教育。同时还建设了很多不错的专科校，技校。虽然课程设置上不同，但理念其实是和美国教育接近的。文革十年浩劫结束，改开了，国家发现人才断层了。于是采用了错误的不符合教育规律的应激措施来期望快速弥补人才缺失，比如高中开始文理分科，在用人时高度强调知识化，突出学历要求，各种机会均向有学历、高学历者倾斜，好的岗位均向有学历、高学历者开放，唯学历论。以前中专的技校的老职工，工作好也升不上去。学生就开始往大学挤。中专，技校关门，千军万马一定要过独木桥。高考指挥棒发威。90年代开始国家又开始搞错误的教育产业化，同时为了规避人口带来的就业压力，高校扩招，大专也能变大学，学历注水。社会上于是更强调学历，还得是好学校的本科学历。学生就更抢破头形成恶性循环。学校学习背离教育规律，就是为了高考。所有这些全都是畸形的东西。平民不平民的，都真正是胡扯的。

水风

奉孝 发表于 2014-5-25 21:29
但是美国从事理工行业的这小部分人呢，智力水平和敬业精神应该都很高吧。整个社会（包括中国）的进化趋势 ...

这其实就是一个很简单的人口基数问题。现在美国理工科方面还是美国人占优势，一方面是因为20年前，理工科还是美国人占绝对的优势。另一方面是因为过去20年积累了足够多的外来人才。但今天大学里面的学生比例，就是20年后世界理工科领跑的那批人的比例。以美国现在的财力和政策，已经不能压倒性的让人留下来。等目前这批领导者退休之后，人才聚集效应也会逐步消亡。那个时候，任凭你有再好的高中，只要还是投行至上，那么美国的领跑地位早晚要交出去。
你看到了炮灰，但没有看到当年的炮灰，已经是目前的领导者。大家都在咬牙熬啊。

逆天废柴

冰蚁 发表于 2014-5-24 22:47
你这观点我前面就说了，美国教育被中国家长最诟病的其实就是小学阶段。认为太松，耽误人，其中更大的焦点 ...

精彩！深以为然。

孩子的教育说到底是在拼家长的水平和资源投入。

大脚丫

万里风中虎 发表于 2014-5-25 21:56
没有火大，我也是搞搞笑，对待一个转型社会很多时候只能微笑地对自己说：一切都会好起来的。

郎咸平以前 ...

我还以为是小虎自己的孩子上学了，受了一些什么刺激,最近转贴的东西都有点负能量的感觉。

社会变迁都是喜忧参半的，80后的优点我就不说了，只想说可以上体育课死掉的人大概就是80后才有的，当然，奥运金牌总数第一可能也是靠这些人，当然是其中上体育课没死掉的。

我所在的这个小城市教育比较奇葩，公立学校的初中完败于私立学校，私立学校收费非常高，还把好的生源搜刮干净，就这样，他们还要鼓吹私立教育。其实家长们都是被玩弄的，重点高中就那么几个，比拼着为孩子的教育花钱，并不能弥补孩子天分上的差距。私立学校就搞填鸭式那一套，是能提高一些孩子的考试成绩，但是代价就是大家都耗在这里面了，所谓全面发展根本就是一句空话。

私立教育起源于教育产业化，原因就是政府没钱搞教育了，于是把一部分原属于全体公民的优质教育资源拿出来作价出售。结果现在私立学校尾大不掉了，反哺公立学校根本无从说起，还有把公立教育资源全部吞噬的势头。

国内各地的情况都不相同，所以说起来难说到一块去，不过各种牢骚可能是免不了啦。

Greatsnow

冰蚁 发表于 2014-5-25 10:17
那还什么中产不中产的。美国差一些的学区也是一样的教育体系，对学生的培训也是要完成同样的目标。而且 ...

哈哈哈，今天天气很好啊！

万里风中虎

穿着裤衩裸奔 发表于 2014-5-25 16:42
这个么，老虎你先别火大，我只是说说我看到的或者我认识到的环境，中国的父母会怎么想。至于说这 ...

没有火大，我也是搞搞笑，对待一个转型社会很多时候只能微笑地对自己说：一切都会好起来的。

郎咸平以前说了故事：

港大的一个大陆生问他：我爸说叫我毕业后留在香港工作......
郎咸平:你爸在世界名校读过大学吗？
大陆生：没有。
郎咸平:你爸来过香港吗？
大陆生：没有。
郎咸平:他什么都不知道，怎么指导你？
大陆生：......

问题的症结在哪里，大家知道吗？近10-20年大学生的父母就是当年没上过学的一两代人，这些人中间大多数人的从政治崇拜到金钱崇拜，早就是千疮百孔，让他们教育自己的孩子正确的世界观就好像骆驼穿过针眼一样是不可能的。他们自己都处于超载的状态，所以整个社会出现价值观大崩溃的现象非常正常。

王福重以前说过：中国80后出生的孩子是中国最正常，也是最优秀的孩子。

我对这个观点由衷赞叹，等到80后当上大学生的父母，等他们的孩子再成为父母，中国的教育问题自然就解决了。

耐心，等待，希望。

奉孝

水风 发表于 2014-5-25 21:26
那么美国需要神马职业呢？难道大家都去投行，这才是正道么？要想保持世界领袖地位，首先要确保自己的科技 ...

但是美国从事理工行业的这小部分人呢，智力水平和敬业精神应该都很高吧。整个社会（包括中国）的进化趋势就是一小部分精英带领绝大部分技术工人。美国的问题可能是本国技术工人不太够而已。

水风

四处张望 发表于 2014-5-25 13:34
嘿嘿，如果一个论调就是其实世界不需要那么多理工生，妖道怎解？

那么美国需要神马职业呢？难道大家都去投行，这才是正道么？要想保持世界领袖地位，首先要确保自己的科技，生产和军事的领先地位。这些都是理工人才在干的。最聪明的都去搞金融了，这才是大英帝国当年衰败的最主要原因。美国不是看不到，但本国人贼精贼精的，不肯吃苦就想挣大钱，所以只好靠移民。

所以一旦移民不来了，那么就很快形成多米诺骨牌效应。其兴也倏忽，其败也迅捷。

中国被封锁，只好自力更生，这是好事。